Parking ban in Lincolnshire

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Steve
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Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by Steve »

Letter sent to BBC:

This local news article is causing uproar on motorcaravan social media groups with complaints about the anti motorcaravans council.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news ... st-5890611

Thousands will be stopped from visiting these struggling communities during the off season when holiday makers have gone home and our 389,000 UK motorcaravans are still touring.
The UK are missing an opportunity that the rest of Europe has embraced for many years attracting the rapidly expanding year round tourism sector provided by the UK self contained motorcaravans.

Some councils have started to realise that the estimated £1 billion spent in local businesses every year can aid the recovery of our local businesses by simply providing a continental style motorcaravan stop over (Aire) in or close to town or like the very successful Canterbury Park and Ride Aire, which not only supports local businesses but reduces traffic and pollution in Canterbury.

But it appears that Lincolnshire do not want our business.

The UK have a limited window of opportunity presented by Brexits travel restrictions (90 days) removal of pet passports and covid to build the infrastructure to encourage our touring motorcaravans to stay in the UK and the 2 millon in Europe to visit in the future.
Countries like Australia and New Zealand also provide a welcome for motorcaravans so why not the UK?

Scotland are leading the way and have set up schemes to encourage Aires including a relaxation of planning to allow businesses to set up small sites.

So what are Lincolnshire hoping to achieve by driving away tourist who want to spend their money in these struggling towns?
Steve - CAMpRA Leadership Team
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Re: Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by pauls59@yahoo.co.uk »

My email to Sally Dodds, Head of Events at Warners-shows.co.uk


Sally

Good morning.

It must be really disappointing to read this in the Lincolnshire Live

New charges and overnight parking ban at East Coast car parks


Lincolnshire County Council says that no vehicles will be able to use its facilities throughout the evening.

Lincolnshire County Council says that no vehicles will be able to use its facilities throughout the evening

w.e.f. 1st November:
Lincolnshire County Council says that no vehicles will be able to use its facilities throughout the night, whilst vehicles over six metres in length won't be able to use them at all.

The areas affected will be tourist spots in Skegness, Chapel St Leonards and Huttoft, including Anderby Creek, Moggs Eye, Huttoft, Marsh Yard, Six Marshes and Wolla Bank, along the east coast of Lincolnshire.


This from a Council who are very happy for you to set up your End Of Season show, within their county at the local Showgrounds, take the monies of your visitors, when they spend locally in the economy, BUT, are not prepared to provide facilities. Here there will be many local dealers and others showing off their wares, yet THEIR customers are about to be denied the pleasure of enjoying their purchases locally.

The council says it is willing to work with local residents to find the right solutions for the areas.
What about working with the other stakeholders, - the dealers and users.

Councillor Colin Davie added: "As these sites have become more popular, increasingly they are frequented by motorhome users". "The oversized nature of these vehicles has led to more incidences of obstructive parking, and greatly reduces the space available for other visitors to the beach.

Graham Fisher, chairman of Anderby Parish Council, said: "This is absolutely a win-win for us and can't come too soon."

"The council has already helped by putting double yellow lines in the village, and now a managed car park will make such a difference.

"We've been asking for this for a while, so I'm really pleased to see that the county council are bringing in these better regulations which we know will benefit both visitors and residents alike."

I wonder how the councillor will feel when the Motorhome and Campervan Community, decide to stay away from Lincolnshire. It wont be a 'WIN-WIN' for Anderby Parish Council then, or any other local Parish Council, and the relevant economies. .

It is a grim picture of what is happening across the country, thanks in part to the pandemic we are in, the uptake of new motorhome and campervan ownership, staycationing, and sever lack of facilities for touring motorhomes and campervans, outside of commercial campsites.

What are the dealer's and promoter's going to do? They are the 'seller's of these 'oversized, and unwanted vehicles'.

Perhaps, stand up for your clients: - push councils to provide more motorhome stopover and service points, consider informing Lincolnshire Council, this will be your last year holding the End of season show in their area.




Mr Paul Simpson
7 Newtown Crescent
Newtownards
N. Ireland
BT23 7GP



Response from Sally Dodds, of Warners.


Dear Mr Simpson

I cannot comment on Lincolnshire Council however, I would expect it is not that they don’t want motorhomes in the county, there are many beautiful camp sites, it is just where they park.

Lincolnshire Council do not own the showground and Warners is obviously a private company. It is the motorhomes/ caravans arriving before the gates open that park in laybys and private roads that the local authorities and residents want to deter. Not the actual camping on the purpose built camp sites in the area.

We do find this with many of our venues, not just Lincolnshire.

Regards

Sally Dodds
Head of Events
P Simpson
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Re: Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by PatsPatter »

In response to Sally's post and to add the text of a message I sent to the Chairman of the East Lindsey District Council:

Sally: I'm sorry but it's not the indiscriminate, obstructive and nuisance parking by the inconsiderate few that is the main problem here and it's nowhere near the Showground.
The whole problem arises from the complete lack of any casual parking places, or the associated facilities in pretty much ANY part of Lincolnshire. What few there are have now been severley depleted by this latest bit of mean spirited legislation. I was born, bred and now live again on the East Coast of Lincolnshire, so I have a fair idea of the situation locally.

The following is the text of the email I sent to the Chairman of the East Lindsey District Council:

Letter to Sarah Devereux
I am writing to you as Chairman of The East Lindsey District Council and I'm afraid it is to voice my considerable disquiet.
My wife and I have been motorhome owners for more than 40 years, so we are not unaware of what it means and what is required. We also know how to behave as motorhome users having travelled extensively throughout Europe and into North Africa.
The one thing we have noted is that in comparison to Scotland, Wales and Ireland, England in particular has a very poor reputation amongst motorhome owners of all nationalities because of the lack of casual parking areas and facilities, paid for or otherwise. In comparison to European countries, England is already just an unwelcoming backwater.
It was then with some considerable dismay that I read of the recent proposed changes to byelaws and regulations aimed at preventing the parking of a large proportion of motorhomes in Council car parks, when I had hoped to see just the opposite.
You are no doubt aware that sales and ownership of motorhomes has increased markedly over the last few years and rocketed during the last 18 months or so. That coupled with Covid pandemic and the current Government overseas holiday travel policy has ensured that many, many more motorhomers are trying to find enjoyment within these shores - and why not?
I fully understand the need to prevent obstruction in a car park and even more so the spoiling of any public area by the actions of the thoughtless few but a blanket ban on any vehicle over 6 metres in length, whilst making no attempt to provide any alternative arrangement for them, verges on discrimination.  If what I read has been accurately reported, it will be acceptable to take a 5.9 metre motorhome into a car park – but not one 10 centimetres longer.  The whole thing it seems to me to be extremely short sighted and inward looking and I wonder at the motives behind it.
The argument that all motorhomes should descend on the commercial caravan and mobile home parks, or a Certified Locations in the corner of a muddy field, patently defeats the object of owning a motorhome. The idea is to travel, enjoy a visit to a town, a village, a nature reserve, an historic monument - then stay a night and move on to the next one. In the process of this adventure, motorhome owners spend quite a lot of money, so that is surely to the benefit of local businesses – and yet the Council seem hell bent on driving away all such activity and enjoyment by anyone who happens to own a motorhome, especially one longer than 6 metres.
The answer is, of course, very simple and maybe that is what some members of the Council are trying to achieve. When faced with these sort of deliberate obstacles, we and every other motorhome owner will simply travel to the next county to spend our money.  In fact almost any other County in England, Scotland, Ireland, or Wales will find a Council that has had the foresight and vision to install marked bays for motorhomes. Some have mounted a simple tap on the wall and arranged a place to empty waste and they make a reasonable charge for those facilities. It’s not rocket science, it takes very little extra infrastructure or maintenance and everyone benefits. The local towns get more visitors who spend their money and the businesses get more trade. I’m quite sure that given the right facilities and welcome, more jobs will be created in those Council areas as well.
I have not heard one motorhome owner complain at being offered such facilities.
If the argument against motorhomes is supported by the sweeping statement that motorhomes bring disruption and litter, it is unfairly aimed at the vast majority of us and it simply isn’t true. As in every other aspect of life, there will always be some who think the rules just don’t apply to them, motorhome owner, or not. All I have to do is think back to the actions and attitude of some during the height of the Pandemic, or walk round the perimeter of my property in the middle of XXXXXXXXXXXX where I can find significant quantities of dog excrement and litter – and no one parks a motorhome there. No one enforces the existing byelaws that legislate against such disgusting antisocial activity, either.
It is long past time that Councils stopped treating motorhome owners as pariahs and instead took the blinkers off. It is a fact of life, of our post-Brexit Britain, heaven help us.
A lot of people now own motorhomes, they want to explore and enjoy these islands and it is not unreasonable to expect them to be accommodated in some small way. The creed of the vast majority of motorhome owners is that the only thing you ever leave is a footprint, maybe a tyre track. The only thing you ever take is a photograph and a memory to enjoy.
If I wanted to spend my holidays in a holiday ‘park’, surrounded by thousands of other people, captive to the in-house shops and entertainment, jollied along at every moment by a ‘host’, then I’d go to Butlins.
Quite frankly, I’d sooner stick pins in my eyes!
It would be nice if for once someone with a view of reality and an open mind listened to the other side of the argument – and instead of trying to banish motorhomes, did something about the singular lack of facilities for the motorhome owner and user in this area. I couldn’t disagree that Lincolnshire isn’t alone with this attitude – but it isn’t anything to be proud of.
I look forward to your response.
Yours
etc, etc


I'm not holding my breath ...............

I needs to be said that Huttoft in particular has in the past been badly fouled by so called 'motorhomers', long before Covid came along. 'As for Anderby Creek: I suspect they do not give a stuff. The whole area and much of the coast, both north and south, is completely carpeted with mobile home parks, with captive audiences for their 'facilities' I suspect the idea of anyone getting what they consider to be a 'freebie' gives them great pain.

Will
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Re: Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by arthur49 »

And my post on Lincolnshire County Council Facebook page:
"I'm a Scot and I can't recall ever being in Lincolnshire. We have a 6.2m long campervan, fully self contained. I find this sort of 'ban' to be the simplistic, unthinking solution to an issue. Welcome the fact campervans want to visit your region, and spend their money locally. A recent survey by CAMpRA indicated that campervanners staying overnight in a community spend on average £47 per night (pubs, cafes, shops etc). And people like us - retired with money to spend - tour all year round, when caravan parks are usually closed. Where do you want us to stop overnight? MANAGE the issues you have identified, and present solutions, not bans. Check this out, in particular the Business Hub, where solutions are identified https://campra.org.uk/"
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Re: Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by Zoe »

I believe if CAMpRA is going to make any progress with Lincolnshire County Council’s decision we need to concentrate on asking them to reconsider the ban on vehicles over 6m using these parking areas and not on overnight parking. From my understanding of the reasons behind the existing council ban on overnight parking it will never be allowed.

There are a couple of reasons for this:

Firstly. A bylaw was put in place several years ago prohibiting overnight parking. This was because a group of ‘van-lifers’ set up permanent camp in one of these car parks and caused damage to the area, a nature reserve, which is part of the Lincolnshire Coastal Country Park. They camped there for months, may be even over a year. The County Council eventually evicted them after a long legal battle due to the complaints from local residents and because of their effect on the environment.

Secondly, Huttoft Parking Terrace is prone to flooding when there is an extremely high tide, so from the council’s perspective, allowing sleeping in vehicles would put the occupants at risk. The council would be responsible for any injuries or damage that could occur from flooding if overnight parking were allowed. Currently sea fisherman have to obtain a permit to park here overnight so the council know how many people are on the beach night fishing. A stipulation of being issued with an overnight parking permit for fishing is that sleeping in their vehicles at any time during the night is not allowed.

This is my email to Lincolnshire County Council

Dear Cllr Davie,

I am writing in the hope you will reconsider the ban on vehicles over 6m in length at Huttoft parking terrace.

I live in Lincolnshire, and often spend the day at Huttoft beach in my motorhome. I have spoken to many of the other motorhomers that I have met there, the majority are either fairly local like me and just out for the day or they are on holiday in the area and have driven to the coast from their campsite or overnight parking stop to spend the day at the Lincolnshire Coastal Country Park.

When this anytime parking ban for vehicles over 6m comes into force, both motorhome day trippers and holiday makers will have no where to park during the day along the beautiful Coastal Country Park.

A motorhome parked end on at Huttoft requires no more space than a large car. I visit Huttoft all year round and apart from in July and August and when the weather is favourable there is always ample parking space at Huttoft terrace. So the other months where parking charges are in effect the area will be missing out on parking revenue generated by larger vehicles and also their spending money at local businesses to on their way to and from the coast, all year round.

Most people visit Lincolnshire to spend time at the beach, if the beach cannot be accessed by visitors in larger vehicles I expect they will visit another part of the country where they are made to feel more welcome. In turn, taking their spending money with them.

Can Lincolnshire really afford to lose the income motorhome tourists bring to the area ?

Motorhome tourists travel all year round and there are now nearly 400,000 motorhomes /camper vans registered in the UK. The fasted growing sector of tourists in the UK.

The majority of motorhome tourists are middle aged or retired people with money to spend when they are out and about.

It’s unfortunate that this decision has been made because of the actions of the irresponsible and inconsiderate minority of people who chose to park up overnight where they are not permitted to and leave their waste behind.

The link below to Motorhomes and Campers against litter might be of interest to you too.

Motorhome and camper van owners have all been tarred with the same brush because of the behaviour of the minority.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/648581229420630/


I look forward to hearing from you soon,

Zoë Watson
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Re: Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by PatsPatter »

I've had a reply from my local council (East Lindsey District Council) chairman and as she quite rightly points out, the legislation is being processed by the County Council.
However, contained in her reply was something that I hope will add a hopeful note. I've copied her response below and my reply to that response.

" Firstly thank you for taking the time to write to me. I read your email with interest and as the daughter of someone who has always enjoyed their campervan a good deal of understanding.
The matter you refer to was actually an LCC decision and I will forward your email onto the leader of Lincolnshire County Council if I have your permission?
East Lindsey are looking into the matter as we recognise just how vital our visitor economy is.
I will await your response before forwarding on your email.


and my reply:

"Thank you very much for the quick response and yes, I would be very grateful if you would pass my message on to the LCC - and any other emails, too. I can only hope it doesn't just get 'filed'. I understand where the proposals came from but wrote to you because the proposed new bye-laws highlight parking areas along the East Lindsey coast and I have no doubt that the change was driven by input from the Parish Councils and some of the business and community leaders in those areas.
Given what you have told me regarding your association with motorhomes, I have high hopes that someone with a voice will now support at least some of the observations in my email. I was born, bred and brought up in Lincolnshire, so I have a decent framework from which to make observations on the incredibly poor level of facilities this County offers - and the zeal with which it seems able to further legislate against motorhomes, whilst providing no help, options, or support.
It really is a sad state of affairs considering that there are now almost 250,000 motorhomes in Britain and travel beyond these shores is now significantly limited.
In the past I've just accepted that casual parking and facilities for motorhomes were poor in this County and travelled elsewhere for my leisure activity but this latest move by the LCC spurred me to react. I will live in hope that someone in Lincoln actually opens their eyes to reality.
If I can offer anything more that might help, please let me know."


Will
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Re: Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by PatsPatter »

............. and a quick follow up to my last:

I've quoted the UK motorhome numbers as about 250,000 and off the top of my head, can't remember where that figure came from - but it wasn't a guess.
Zoe Watson has quoted the number as 400,000.
Am I way off the mark? If so, I'll correct my figure pronto.

Will
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Re: Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by arthur49 »

PatsPatter wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:51 pm ............. and a quick follow up to my last:

I've quoted the UK motorhome numbers as about 250,000 and off the top of my head, can't remember where that figure came from - but it wasn't a guess.
Zoe Watson has quoted the number as 400,000.
Am I way off the mark? If so, I'll correct my figure pronto.

Will
Yes your figure is low. I always quote 390000 obtained from Strategy Document here https://campra.org.uk/wp-content/upload ... 202021.pdf
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Re: Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by Steve »

The latest figures are updated when we get then from the DVLA on this forum:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=402
Steve - CAMpRA Leadership Team
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Re: Parking ban in Lincolnshire

Post by PatsPatter »

Done.

Email to Chairman of the ELDC with figures corrected as suggested above.

Will
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