Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

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CeciliaFreer
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Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

Post by CeciliaFreer »

Posted on FB by Dod Reid 6/11/21. Comments turned off by admin.

‘My local council Stonehaven in Aberdeenshire are quoting the following in response to set up an Aires on our three car parks is some information available to counter this. Thanks.
• Fire (Scotland) Act 2005, the Fire Safety (Scotland) Regulations 2006 - distance between any two units “should be not less than 6 metres” and that “no car parking area providing parking for more than 10 cars should be nearer than 18 metres from any unit”.’


Stonehaven is a lovely place, very well used' if not overused by Motorhomes, very likely that locals will eventually push to have council prevent overnight parking on the promenade. Would be a great shame.
Dod is obviously working hard with the council and hit a brick wall. The fire guidance versus regulations have differences (the 6m but seeming to be more campsite linked with caravans & cars and awnings to take into account, rather than overnight parking as such. Clarity is needed though. Recently I, along with others, responded to requests from CAMpRA to complete a Stonehaven survey and said how great it is and that more motorhome services/parking is needed.
How can we help Dod move this along? Do we have any fire safety experts/lawyers that can help out? If not know can we advertise on the Facebook group to see if there are any relevant people out there with the knowledge needed?
What are other councils doing that do allow overnight parking? Do we have contacts in these councils that Dod could give to Stonehaven so they can compare their situations?

Really feel strongly this shouldn’t be dropped. Turning off comments on FB might have closed down someone who could have some knowledge to help. I can’t even let Dod know now that I’ve set up this thread to try to progress things further 😞
Cecilia Freer
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Re: Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

Post by arthur49 »

Hi Cecilia it was me, I turned off commenting!

It is true we've hit a brick wall. I asked Roy to comment - he used to be in the Fire Service - but he couldn't. There is a risk that the thread becomes a whingeing one which does us no good.

However, I'll turn on Commenting again :D
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Re: Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

Post by Hairyneep »

I believe that the Stonehaven community council may be incorrectly quoting the Fire Scotland act 2005, it appears that they are actually quoting from a Scottish Fire & Rescue Service document which does state 6m between units but also that this can be varied following consultation with the Scottish Fire & Rescue Service.

If someone wishes to contact the SFRS then let me know and I’ll get the name of the Station Commander that covers the Stonehaven area.

https://www.firescotland.gov.uk/media/1 ... ept_16.pdf
CeciliaFreer
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Re: Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

Post by CeciliaFreer »

Hairyneep wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:06 pm I believe that the Stonehaven community council may be incorrectly quoting the Fire Scotland act 2005, it appears that they are actually quoting from a Scottish Fire & Rescue Service document which does state 6m between units but also that this can be varied following consultation with the Scottish Fire & Rescue Service.

If someone wishes to contact the SFRS then let me know and I’ll get the name of the Station Commander that covers the Stonehaven area.

https://www.firescotland.gov.uk/media/1 ... ept_16.pdf
That sounds really helpful.

I also wondered if the council are quoting the Caravan Act 1965. I came across this document which might be helpful too - seems to say the Act (i.e. the 6m distance) relates to caravan campsites and that is open to variation depending on the situation.
https://www.eastleigh.gov.uk/media/1219 ... n-site.pdf

Arthur, I've private messaged Dod so he now has a link to this forum. Hopefully he'll pick this up. What sort of support can CAMpRA offer him to progress it further? Has anyone dealt with other councils that have opened for overnight parking and had similar discussions that might be able to contribute - maybe the park and rides that are opening up for overnights Durham or is it Helmsley Yorkshire that also allows this? There must be some knowledge out there.
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AndyC
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Re: Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

Post by AndyC »

This is my take on the situation (posted on Fb too):

As I understand it, in Scotland (as in England & Wales) the regulations do not set the spacing requirements, they just require a risk assessment to be carried out.
It is the guidance (i.e. not the law) which gives spacing recommendations. The wording in the 2018 guidance at https://www.gov.scot/publications/pract ... /pages/13/ is: "the distance between any two units should generally be not less than 6 m for permanent residential sites and touring sites", and "The 6 m distance between units may be reduced where caravan construction is inherently fire-resistant. Under such circumstances, the distance may be reduced to 5 m".
It's important to recognise that the above is 'guidance' for those carrying out the risk assessment, and the wording is "should generally be" not "must be".
Whoever carries out such a risk assessment could use our Fire Safety document to permit lesser spacing, they would however need to justify the decision to SFRS if asked.
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Re: Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

Post by CeciliaFreer »

Thanks Andy, that sort of ties in with the document I attached to my last post, as seems to relate to permanent sites as opposed to overnight parking situation.

The forestry sites trials used 4m as their spacing rules, which I assume they decided they were happiest with. We’re using 3m which I believe to be the minimum and this was from the CAMpRA guidance document.

Just to keep all info in this thread, I’ve attached two screen shots of the conversations between Dod and myself on messenger this morning so he knows about this forum thread. (Dod is grey background, I’m blue)
Attachments
Messenger conversation part 2
Messenger conversation part 2
Messenger conversation part 1
Messenger conversation part 1
Cecilia Freer
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Re: Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

Post by Steve »

Please send our motorcaravan fires safety report commissioned from a leading firm of fire safety experts using available fire service data.
Theses are members of the FPA - Fire Protection Association

The report recommends a distance of 3m for an Aire, not a campsite as no external equipment is allowed and no lowering of legs.
Therefore the vehicle can easily be moved if necessary.
Steve - CAMpRA Leadership Team
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Re: Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

Post by arthur49 »

I think Dod has been fed a lot of good info - see FB thread - so hopefully it gives him more data to debate with the authorities
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Re: Stonehaven Car Parks Fire Risk objections by council

Post by pauls59@yahoo.co.uk »

I searched SFRS, found the details of the four Local Senior Officers,(LSOs), and messaged them to Dod, as well as putting the details on the relevant FB post, in case anyone else wanted to contact the LSOs.


Dod Reid
Stonehaven comes under the North Region for Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. firescotlands.gov.uk/your_area/north/

HQ is Pitmedden Road, Dyce, AB21 0DP
Tn 01224 728600.
Head of Service Delivery is Andrew Watt.

There are 4 Local Senior Officers (LSOs), in the Northern region.:

Area Commander for Aberdeen City, Aberdeenshire and Moray, 2 Mounthooly Way, Aberdeen. Ab24 3ER, TN 01224 728600, is Bruce Farquharson.

AC for Dundee, Angus, Perth & Kinross,
Blackness Road, Dundee, DD1 5PA TN 01224 728600.
is Stephen Wood.

AC for Western Isles, Orkney and Shetland Islands, 4 Robertson Road, Stornaway, HS1 2LL TN 01851 705051, is Ian Macleod,

AC for Highland area, 16 Harbour Road, Inverness, IV 1 1TB, TN 01463 22700 is Derek Wilson.
P Simpson
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